No Kill's campaign of lies, hate and deception

As Nathan Winograd prepares to kick off his "No Kill is Love" tour later this summer its time for then rescue advocacy community to open its eyes to many of Nathan's "partners" who are deeply involved in a campaign aimed at attacking anyone who dares question the authenticity of a movement rift with fraud and animal suffering.

This blog has become to focal point for an attack lead by No Kill Nation's leader Debi Day that people who seriously love animals must open their eyes too.  Included in this organized attack are the creation of several fake twitter accounts which were used last summer to threaten, slander and defame this writer into silence by targeting the senior hounds living in my Georgia "no kill sanctuary" to force this silence.

One of those fake twitter accounts was a person who went by the name "The Idiot Whisperer". 
It is my assumption based on other claims from No Kill Nation's leader that she was willing to "pay for information" on her "haters" that person is what is referred to in cyberspace as a cyber thug that carries out an attack leaving the person who organized the attack with "clean hands". 

This picture was hijacked off my Facebook page.  This tweet was posted in the late hours of June 13th 2013.  There is nothing humorous about making jokes about dogs who have been rescued from kill shelters.  Obviously this person is an idiot or he would have thought far enough ahead to be able to explain how these "corpses" he is accusing me of killing came "back alive".  What does this have to do with "no kill"?

This is a second picture of alleged "corpses" caused by hoarding posted about an hour later on twitter as well.  As you will see this attack crosses way over a line of common decency and boundaries that are acceptable in any advocacy movement.  This is slander, this is pure hate and its pure character assassination - with everything leading to the board room of an organization known as No Kill Nation.

Some of the comments including in the "conversation" are equally disgusting.  These tweets were set up with this tweet coming from Debi Day's twitter account @seeside with this tweet.

I'm not sure what No Kill Nation's leader finds disgusting in a picture that includes an eighteen year old senior Belle who was rescued eight years ago from a local kill shelter, a ten year old beagle dumped in our driveway or our American bull dog but most animal lovers would never make such comments about someone else's dogs.  What is telling is the copy list @seeside used to "share" this tweet. 

This is part of No Kill Nation's "team" assigned to post highly insulting and defamatory statements directed at me.  How this type of organized attack fits into the "No Kill Equation" is anyone's guess.
No Kill Nation's attack team includes Marilyn Reese @plantfhreak , Teri Fulks (Dyer) @TKFulks , Camille Loge (@Clo1117 and a new addition who goes by the name of Idiot Whisperer.
So what positive information do these cyber thugs have to offer that might lead a community towards "no kill"?  You be the judge.

Since he started out posting pictures of dogs he claimed were dead this was a natural follow up tweet.  No Kill Nation has stepped over a line now accusing me of killing fifteen of the old hounds (many of whom were personal dogs) living in our sanctuary.  The truth tells a far different story with ALL of these passing's being old age issues.

So, what expertise does the Idiot Whisperer bring to the no kill discussion that would enable him to make these less than intelligent claims?  Again in his own words.

Admittedly, like No Kill Nation, this guy is clueless on rescue but he is an expert on the politics.  Is he a paid cyber thug?  It certainly has the appearance of being a paid contract cyber hit.

What direction will this attack take - armed only with ignorance the Idiot Whisperer starts down a path of filing false neglect and abuse allegations with any agency that would listen.

Note a new addition to the team - none other than Maria Venuto aka Lucy Van Pelt.  Complaints were fled with GA Dept of Agriculture and our local shelter Gwinnett Animal Control.

No Kill Nation's leader Debi Day brought in the Idiot Whisperer for a reason - this is where her efforts to have my hounds seized and the no kill sanctuary that had saved hundreds of hounds over the last dozen years CLOSED DOWN.  Problem is - I am NOT a rescue group therefore I am not required to be licensed by the Department of Agriculture.

On June 22nd 2013 No Kill Nation's leader is clearly aware and responsible for false allegations being filed with the Georgia department of Agriculture hoping to close down our senior sanctuary for hounds and send those dogs to the nearest kill shelter.

I run a privately funded sanctuary for senior hounds that are all "owned" personally.  I am only required to comply with Gwinnett County animal ordinances with which I have a flawless record on care and compliance issues.  If No Kill Nation's leader Debi Day had a clue what the laws were she would have realized her ignorance.  The real unanswered question is WHERE in No Kill Nation's mission statement does it call for the leadership to bring in outside thugs to distort and lie about conditions in a sanctuary resulting in placing many of those dogs in grave danger.

Who does that anyway?  So what were the allegations being levied by a person who admittedly knows nothing about rescue?  It should disgust you to know.



It is disgusting to think that No Kill Nation would even stoop so low to enter into such an ignorant discussion about senior dogs who have closed out there lives at our sanctuary, especially in lieu of all the seniors that No Kill Nation allows to die in south Florida shelters all the time. 

No Kill Nation admittedly DOESN'T do rescue - I do.  Even more insulting is the fact that several of those fifteen dogs misrepresented by this tweet were personal dogs who had died of OLD AGE issues. 

For an advocacy group to make such ignorant comments with participation and direction coming from its totally clueless President speaks VOLUMES as to why Debi Day is not qualified to lead an A.A. meeting let alone a fraudulent advocacy group with a mission statement beholden to irresponsible breeders.

Yet, the comments get worse - this gets personal and it gets disgusting.

As of last June while No Kill Nation could not clearly show any programs that might save lives or help communities reform their shelters what they did have in place was a number of Debi Day's followers who were part of a team assigned to stalk every word I posted on Facebook. 

In this mischaracterization a foster beagle named Juju developed a prolapsed rectum which required surgery to repair.  I leave the rest to your imagination.  Ask yourself where THOSE comments fit into any discussion on "no kill"?  You will also see how ALL of these comments were directed towards my twitter account. 

Yet, when I answered some of these nonsensical tweets with return responses Debi Day's attorney filed a motion claiming I was in violation of a "no contact" order the court granted without allowing me to participate in that hearing.  That is NOT due process - its a kangaroo court.

I won't even respond to this ignorance.  Hundreds of beagles and bassets who have used our sanctuary as a safe haven would think differently.  Obviously No Kill Nation and the "no kill" movement it claims to represent places very little value in rescuing seniors in even participating in this type of ignorant and ill informed discussion.

Death camps are "sanctuaries like Spindletop Refuge or Caboodle Ranch - where dogs and cats clearly died from abusive conditions.  Strange that No Kill Nation's leader Debi Day would defend both of those sanctuaries while trying to close down a sanctuary with a flawless history of providing much needed services for special needs senior hounds.

Not satisfied with an ignorant attack directed at our hounds the discussion gets way too personal.

Expecting a sixty year old man suffering from severe crohn's disease that has left him walking with crutches at the time to replace an old carpet shows a lack of understanding and compassion for the disabled.  We'll ignore the fact that Debi Day has NEVER complained about the fact that many of the Spindletop Refuge pit bulls she defends lived in small cages for months eating and sleeping in their own waste and drinking their own urine to survive.  Many didn't survive. 

Where is the outrage over THOSE conditions?  In future blogs we will discuss No Kill nation's investment in a boarding kennel called the Dog House in Pompano with a history of squalor like conditions where Debi can dump dogs "saved" from local kill shelters. 

Now that's mature. 



Making jokes about a person's health issues is extremely classless and in pour taste.  Wishing someone to die is beyond classless.  As you will see Debi Day "retweeted" that info therefore taking ownership as well.

A conversation with an eight year old - how classic.

Yet, another "eight year old" thanks the Idiot for his support?  Note how even though she clearly sets all this up and participates through twitter comments of her own Debi still tries to play the victim.  Debi thinks every one is as stupid as she is and can't see though her childish games.

No Kill Nation's leader Debi Day didn't simply use one cyber thug to harass, slander and attack both me personally and the no kill sanctuary that I manage but as evidence will show used several "team players" to commit these egregious acts.  All of the players in this facade worked from the same play book - repeating the same lies and dishonest dialect as part of a larger scheme committing "character assassination".

Those who participated in this attack which started as far back as the fall of 2012 include the infamous Maria Venuto (who masquerades as the comic book creature "Lucy Van Pelt"), Camille Loge (who runs a Facebook rescue page called Camille's Rescue), Marilyn Reese (a Winograd groupie who lives in California), Teri Dyer (founder of a Facebook group called No Kill Brevard and No Kill Nation's board member Kathy Santomero.

Also involved in an  ongoing attack are several members of an ANONYMOUS hacker group which NKN's President routinely incited using false allegations as well.  All of this can be proven, has been shared with the U.S. Attorney's office in Atlanta and now will be shared on this blog.

Is this what the No Kill MOVEMENT has morphed into?   It should be absolutely disgusting to ANY dog lover that a group whose mission statement is to save lives instead focuses its assets gained through YOUR donations and its efforts attacking anyone who dares question or oppose that vision.

Is THIS really the intelligent conversation needed to reform our nation's sheltering system or would you call this type of behavior "childish behavior unbecoming of anyone claiming a leadership role in a movement that she is clearly not qualified to handle and in fact has no prior experience on her resume to suggest any previous success in those advocacy efforts.

No Kill Nation's Debi Day is a bored socialite with enough money that she THINKS she can BUY this fame, power and glory - it simply does NOT work that way in real life.

How does Debi Day's involvement work towards her goal of destroying my reputation and legacy in the rescue community?  What Debi does is employ cyber thugs to post false information which she simply "re tweets" to her 1,000 or so followers on twitter as if this information SHE PLANTS is indeed fact.  Amongst the slanderous rumors she has participated in spreading are that I am a hoarder, convicted felon, drug dealer, violent towards woman, kill my dogs through neglect and that "I" am the mentally insane stalker in this case.

The fact is my involvement in this case has ALWAYS been limited to seeking the TRUTH on what No Kill Nation and Debi Day did with the over $100,000 they collected in the fall of 2011 for No Kill Nation's Everglades Project - nothing more - nothing less.

Despite claims to the contrary the court case itself NEVER heard any witnesses, never held any hearings were evidence of slander was introduced nor were there any rulings on facts related to the alleged defamatory issues.  I simply defaulted on a court case rather than spend thousands of dollars in legal fees that would be better spent maintaining our sanctuary. 

In other words, I chose to spend my resources and time SAVING senior hounds while No Kill Nation obviously invests most of its efforts and money on lawsuits trying to close down rescues like mine and send the dogs BACK to local kill shelters.  How is that part of any NO KILL EQUATION?

 

 I started this blog with three pictures that were hijacked off my Facebook page to create a drama situation that did not exist.  Here is THAT picture again.  Where does this type of infantile behavior fit into a no kill movement that has failed miserably?  This is totally OVER the line of common decency and honest behavior we expect from those claiming a leadership role in any advocacy effort.  You don't see animal protection groups like HSUS, the ASPCA, Best Friends or PeTa employ these dishonest tactics so how is "no kill" any better?

The senior hounds in this picture ALL survived a stay at a kill shelter.  Debi Day was NOT there to rescue them when they faced death then and her behavior now that threatens their safety is repulsive.  All of these dogs are innocent creatures who have names, are happy on their new home and in fact love me as their caretaker.  It should disgust ANY animal lover to see them involved in No Kill Nation's little scheme.

This comment is nothing more than a threat that Debi shares with complete strangers in the hopes someone will act on it.  It's offensive - its criminal this type of behavior has NO PLACE in any social movement PERIOD.  Targeting a senior citizen with a disability with false attacks like this is the real act of cowardice - Debi should be ashamed - SHE IS the freak show.

Haven't WE had enough of a movement so childish that the only real suffering from this type of behavior is ultimately the shelter dogs and cats who continue to die because "No Kill" message is so far off track.  No Kill isn't about saving lives - its about greed, power and people more concerned about their own misplaced egos - the animals are irrelevant.  That is sad.

"Good night my friend?"  I rest my case.  Debi can stand by her beliefs that honesty is NOT important nor are the lives of dogs she is willing to kill by sending them back to a shelter. 

In the coming weeks I will share the rest of the story which sadly doesn't get any better.  Last Monday No Kill nation's leader organized another attack on our sanctuary which included having four people call in false reports of abuse and neglect to the Gwinnett Animal Control in the hopes that all twenty nine of the dogs who reside here would be impounded.  That story will disgust you even more.



Just a Battle of Words

This No Kill Nation vs Drats case evolved over my demands that No Kill Nation disclose how the $100,000 donated to the Everglades Project in the fall of 2011 was actually being spent.

Rather than disclose that accounting NKN's leader Day instead hired a law firm Tripp Scott to file a civil law suit for the comments listed on these two pages.

Compare the context of my statements, many of which were posted on my personal Face book page, with the comments leveled against me personally. Ironically it would be one year, or in mid November of 2012 that NKN finally released their version of Everglades accounting.

Line items for an administrative fee of $5,646 on donations earmarked for rescue with only $872 paid out to "My Animals Rock" which is rescue group that had been helping Mirta for years. 

Regardless off the numbers on payments to various vet offices the cost per animal rescued would have been substantially less had this rescue operation partnered with Miami Dade Animal Services. 

Sadly, because No Kill Nation insisted on controlling the rescue operation based on available resources.  Many dogs got left behind that could have had a safe place to sleep at the county shelter.

Note: Amy Roman Restucci took over the Abandoned Dogs of the Everglades in February of 2012.  She is now paying herself a $50,000 salary and driving a new BMW - all thanks to donor dollars.  No Kill nation paid ex show breeder Karolyn Rico a $41,000 salary or more than Ingrid Newkirk for who knows what job responsibility she had.  Charity fraud?  You be the judge.


This one area was were No Kill Nation and I disagree on.  With the hatred that No Kill Nation and their leaders had towards shelters and the animal protection community this much needed help was simply ignored.

The accounting was only released in November of 2012 one week after a "Permanent Injunction" was issued ordered me to take down numerous Drats Blogs and just about any reference I may have made that mentions No Kill Nation on Facebook as well.

The arrogance of deceit kept more animals from being saved.  More numbers that are just numbers considering how long it took No Kill Nation's two accountants to put this together. 

Balanced Paws has a business relationship with NKN's leader Debi Day.  The payout of $3,000 was for boarding and training of a dog rescued from the Everglades named Pierre.  There has been no clear explanation as to what happened to Pierre after or if he left the control of Balanced Paws.

Fourteen months in boarding is an awful long time for any dog but to take a dog found living in the wild and make no attempt to find a suitable foster is simply irresponsible.

Still, while No Kill Nation admits they are not a rescue group they have repeatedly attacked my work here running a no kill sanctuary for senior hounds that I started in late 2002.  I have never fostered a dog in boarding.

While NKN's Amy Restucci was much too busy to foster Pierre herself, or simply clueless on fostering, she did have time to take her whole "100+ Abandoned Dogs" team to Key West for some rest and relaxation. 

 

 



 I never realized how emotionally stressful rescue is in south Florida.  Most rescuers I know spend their evenings cleaning cages, playing with their fosters and trying to figure out how your going to pay for all those fosters living by your feet.  Not Amy, relieved of the boring responsibility of teaching fosters to trust again she unwinds with a night out with the girls at her favorite pub.

Yet, Amy has on numerous occasions called me irresponsible and a hoarder.  I guess you can't be a hoarder as long as you dump your rescues in boarding and get someone else to pick up the tab.

Once I first starting nosing around on issues related to No Kill Nations involvement in the Everglades Project including the relationships with NKN employees Kathy Santomero, Amy Restucci, Maggie Rodriquez and Camille Loge the rhetoric directed towards me became increasingly hostile.

Who is Kathy Santomero?  Kathy was one of the major fundraisers for the Everglades Project.  She did such a wonderful job No Kill Nation promoted her to the board of directors.  Kathy is also a woman of many words.

 



In addition to her skills in fundraising Kathy is well versed in espionage.  One would think a group devoted to ending shelter killing in our nations shelters would have board members focused on bringing about that change.

The sad thing is I am not that difficult to spy on.  My Face book page is open to the public, all my blogs are not only open but allow un moderated comments - something that is unheard of in the no kill movement.

If you can't defend your vision by communicating why your vision is better than anything else then you don't have a vision.

While Kathy talks a good story about being compassionate with those who suffer from chronic illness her actions tell an entirely different story.  Was it compassionate to sign an affidavit swearing under oath that 150 plus of the Drats blogs were "lies and defamatory" towards NKN when many of the topics discussed in those blogs covered item like puppy mills, Nathan Winograd (who is NOT NKN), CAPA laws, Rick Berman and the like.  Either Kathy has extremely poor reading comprehension skills or she deliberately filed a false document with the court.

Why would she do that?  In her own words - it's about the music.

Yes, Kathy IGNORANT PEOPLE can be so cruel.

Despite all this hateful rhetoric I complied with the court order that resulted from Santomero's false affidavit used in court to secure a permanent injunction.  Over 150 blogs were deleted, including dozens of educational blogs written months before the Everglades even became an NKN project.

All my older comments on Facebook were blocked by simply changing settings preventing anyone from accessing old posts,  A court order to Google deleted over 150 of my blogs including the blogs on puppy mills, Nathan Winograd, Rick Berman, CAPA, Mike Fry and even more incredibly blogs written about my hounds.

In fact, the order was so extensive that two blogs I wrote for first amendment clarification called "Amused to Death" and "My Back Pages" containing nothing more than lyrics to songs that had been around for decades.

Yet, NKN's board member K Santomero swore under oath that all of these blogs were "lies and defamatory" towards NKN.

That was part of my issue with the permanent injunction. What landed me in hot water was when NKN's attorney demanded that all "future writing" on the NKN be included as well.

Clearly, No Kill Nation's leader nor her friends were going to adjust the tone of words they choose to post.  Words of hate became the battle call of a war of words that entangled anyone who dared voice an opposing viewpoint on No Kill Nation's vision or agenda.

Despite demands from Debi Day's attorney that I not be allowed to comment at all on anything related to Debi or her organization those same guidelines obviously didn't apply to her. 

People were attacked with vile comments by both Debi and her friend Maria Venuto (who posts by the alias Lucy Von Pelt) for simply being friends.  I have only known Hilda Mueller for a very short two years.  Hilda is one of the kindest, compassionate person I have had the honor to meet.  The hateful, vile attacks that were directed at Hilda and her family became very personal to me.

I have never had the honor to meet Mary Lundberg but I do know in watching her work she is a friend to shelter animals.

What kind of leader of a national animal advocacy group threatens people and what kind of leader allows her friends to post the most vile comments about a person imaginable?  Mary works tirelessly taking pictures of shelter dogs at MDAS hoping to find that one person who might save a life.  Debi Day and her NKN friends are much too consumed with their war of hate to be bothered.

This is school yard behavior - Debi Day can not be trusted to act like an adult.  This "no kill" movement - if there is a movement - will never survive as long as it is run by children who only have hatred in their hearts.



 

Maybe someone can explain to me where this dialog fits in with implementing Nathan Winograd's "No Kill Equation"?  As an advocate for over a decade I have never seen such vile language.  For a leader of an advocacy group to not only include themselves in this discussion but to host these friends on her Facebook page should be disgusting to everyone who got into advocacy or rescue not to play school yard bully but to save lives of the four legged companions most of us love so dearly.

The truth is none of the vile comments above can be banned through the courts.  That would clearly be a violation of the first amendment.  The Supreme Court has ruled that "even defamatory speech" is protected under the first amendment.

Now as a practical application it would be ill advised to write things that can be proven defamatory like the comments I have just shared.  Those defamatory comments then could be subject to a lawsuit clarifying whether or not they were defamatory or not.
Debi Day has repeatedly claimed that the statements I've written on Facebook or this Drats blog were "ruled" defamatory after the court heard testimony was heard.  That is a blatant lie.  The court NEVER held evidence hearings on any of the statements listed in the original complaint No Kill Nation filed.  

The only hearings held were pretrial motion hearings.  I defaulted out of a court battle that would have cost me six figures in legal fees to defend.  Instead of wasting money on attorney's I chose to use my resources to pay for things like surgery and vet bills for the hounds.

In this country the super wealthy should never be able to "PURCHASE" public opinion.  The concept of the rich and affluent not only silencing my voice but, as Maria puts it "putting me in prison", is something that happens in third world countries but not in the United States of America.

I know many have told me to walk away but walking away from defending the right to free speech would be an insult to all of our brave soldiers who paid the ultimate price for my freedom and yours too - that is simply something I will not do.

Even breeder rats will abandon a sinking ship

While “Drats” is new to the advocacy community as a writer I am not.  Years ago I spent a considerable portion  of my time on many of the "breeder forums and yahoo groups including Patti Strand’s “NAIA”, Walt Hutchens many “PetLaw” groups and some high volume breeder forums out of Missouri.

For the most part these groups were not real friendly with those “animal rights” nuts who were out to make sure pet were extinct.  To participate on these groups you definitely had to check any anti breeder bias at the door.  Needless to say that’s easier said than done so I was frequently booted off these boards only to come back later with a new alias and a new persona as well.

I have to say that participating in these group discussions enlightened me on a number of issues.  Some of my views on responsible breeding and responsible pet ownership comes from more conservative thinking that some members (who were breeders) offered, including Walt Hutchens himself.  Yet, some of my opinions were only verified with the extreme thinking that went against any premise I had allowing support for high volume breeding or that companion pets should be a commodity to be used for purely financial motivations.

I’ve never considered myself part of any real group or movement.  Instead, I arrive at opinions I’m comfortable with as an advocate for change and as a pet owner.

Enter the Nathan Winograd inspired “No Kill” movement.  Its troubling that the movement’s leadership lacks the honesty and integrity needed for serious shelter reform.  Instead, early on Winograd sold out to the breeder interests with his mantra of pet overpopulation being a myth and the hawkish battle he has waged with the animal protection community.’

I do not share his views on either of those two areas.  It remains my position that the animal protection community is fighting the same battle as advocates seeking to not only put an end to shelter killing but more importantly trying to curtail the suffering many animals are exposed to at the hands of those who would exploit them for profit.

Drats wrote of Winograd’s involvement with Rick Berman and his Center for Consumer Freedom.  Winograd’s explanation was that Berman contacted him and he agreed to an interview.  He has also repeatedly claimed that this interview does not mean he supports Berman in any way.  Do you think people would be outraged if Dr King granted an interview with the leader of an oppressor group like the Klue Klux Klan to simply help promote his book?

There is no redemption in sitting down with the devil, a man responsible for exploiting the suffering of people and their companion friends, using him to promote the sale of your books to breeders.  It’s simply blood money flowing from the hands of the exploiters to your bank account.

That Drats blog was removed along with a number of other blogs written about Winograd and puppy mills under a permanent injunction granted to No Kill Nation.  No Kill Nation’s leader Debi Day filed for an injunction over allegations that her group No Kill Nation refused to report how it spent over $100,000 in donations collected under its “100+ Abandoned Dogs in the Everglades Project” in the fall of 2011.

It has also been highly suspect that any leader of a self described advocacy group would have spent close to $100,000 in legal fees when a far simpler solution would have been to just share an accounting on how the money was spent.  What other ulterior motive would have?  Read on.

Drats wrote a blog which discussed the financial support Nathan Winograd received in accepting cash from a Texas breeder support group called the Responsible Pet Owners Alliance (RPOA).  Winograd has repeated denied or refused to discuss this allegation.  Yet, on his own No Kill Advocacy letterhead he welcomes RPOA as one of the sponsors for his conference.

While the amount of money that transferred hands is not mentioned the puppy mill business operates much like a Mexican drug cartel where huge amounts of cash is involved.  Payoffs and protection are part of remaining profitable, regulations and government oversight are not.

That cash used to help sponsor bringing Winograd to Houston for the 2009 No Kill Conference was funneled through Bett Sundermyer’s group No Kill Houston.

"No Kill Houston has NO family ties to puppy mills. There is a huge difference in raising a litter of puppies in your home, and a puppy mill" - Bett Sundermyer 

That might be true but there is also a big difference between a breeder who raises a littter of puppies in their home and a breeder who maintains a kennel with several breeds of dogs and advertises those puppies for sale as a commercial breeder.  In fact, records show the family business involved in breeding several  breeds of small “toy” puppies in Houston for decades. Vivian ran/runs a kennel called Machree in Houston and has operated under the names Shiloh Partie Nursery or Shiloh Kennels as well.  According to sources this breeding kennel has been around for twenty plus years.

The family owning a breeding business is clear.  What isn’t clear is why Bett Sundermyer continues to deny this as fact and instead has launched an attack on directed towards my business interests.  My business interests, including those legal interests in Houston DO NOT involve exploiting the sale of puppies in an area with a history of pet overpopulation.

Bett Sundermyer is listed as founder and President of No Kill Houston while Vivian sits on the board as well.  While No Kill Houston’s support for RPOA is distasteful its opposition to the Texas Humane Legislation Network is beyond the pale.  THLN supported last years effort to pass much needed reform regulations that provide reasonable standards for “puppy mils” yet No Kill Houston was silent in opposition.  It is simply disingenuous to not divulge your connections to the breeding industry while taking positions that oppose reform of those same breeder groups.

RPOA has been around longer than I and have opposed puppy mill legislature for over a decade as well.  Mary Beth’s group is NOT a friend to the millions of dogs who have suffered though the years living in squalor conditions supported by the weak laws in Texas that allowed the abuse to continue.

Taking money from the RPOA laundered through No Kill Houston doesn’t cleanse the blood of dogs who suffered or died from the weak laws in Texas that should have protected them.  It is no wonder why self proclaimed advocacy groups like No Kill Houston were silent in supporting the recently passed Texas version of puppy mill reform – HB 1451.  Drats wrote about HB 1451’sa passing as well  That too was removed for being defamatory against No Kill Nation.

The third strike against Winograd’s real motives and support was a blog written which pointed out Nathan’s participation in giving a no kill presentation at an AKC sponsored dog show in Long Beach California.  What follows is a face book discussion with several breeders I have had the pleasure meeting through the years.  It is one thing for me to write about these breeder connections to Winograd’s No Kill movement but an entirely different eye opening experience when breeders confirm what I have just stated.

But, as you’ll see – even the breeder rats are jumping ship. I’ve highlighted the names of those commenting and key passages.to make it easier to read.

Jackie Kensler
Yesterday at 3:19am (October 28, 2012)

LanCo shelter goes "no kill," critics say growing trend harms pets

My AKC fed, the Florida Association of Kennel Clubs, just came out in opposition to No Kill and I believe their reasons were similar to this. Maybe it's time to rethink No Kill. Perhaps we've not understood it as well as we thought?

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pets/LanCo-shelter-joins-no-kill-movement-critics-say-trend-will-harm-pets.html

Candace Ware True "No Kill Equation" shelters (Winograd's plan) remain open admission. There are 50 communities doing it that way and they are reportedly killing less than 10% of their total intake, and the euthanasia they do perform is justified by aggression, age, health, etc.

Unfortunately, there are shelters out there calling themselves "No Kill" but not following the entire equation. The most common example of this, as far as I can see, are shelters that are *not* open-admission shelters. If, when they go no-kill, a shelter starts "cherry picking" only the most marketable animals -- then they are not technically "No Kill" as outlined by Winograd. They are just shifting the problem elsewhere; not solving it.

I have no personal opinion on whether it works, or how well, as I try not to opine on things unless I have actual hands-on experience with them. But according to what I have read, there are a few dozen communities operating in accordance with Winograd's guidelines and it appears they are making it work.

Didi Culp The shelter where I work does not have to euthanize dogs for space. We don't call ourselves "NK" because every case is arguable. For example, a dog that kills chickens may be adoptable and definitely would not have to be put down if he had an owner or trainer who did not need him to live with chickens. But in a shelter we are comparing him to dogs that have never killed anything. (For the record we did find a great home for a White GSD who kills chickens. 5 years later, still good).

Jackie Kensler omg probably most BTs would kill chickens...

Jackie Kensler Candace Ware some NK shelters do under the table deals w/other shelters and fudge on their numbers.. Regardless, the name is being perverted so there's nk confusion that apparently can cause big problems.

Jackie Kensler and Candace Ware the NK Equation says other things that they don't even try to live up to as evidenced by NW's recent blog where he advocates for the extinction of the breeds. When I think of the effect that is going to have on his followers who read that and recognize his full endorsement of the absolute end to breeding it is clear nk is drawing a line in the sand that can't be misinterpretted; there is no more pretense. Stand by for a tsunami of breeder hate. This guy was at a dog show speaking to breeders and selling his book, and now he is saying, oh, the joke's on you--I never cared about your breeds and I never cared about you. You were just someone to use to promote my name. He is saying very plainly that tho he stands by his claim that shelter over-pop is a myth which absolves breeders from being the cause of overall problems, he's decided they must make the sacrifice anyway and stop all breeding so no one can acquire a dog any other way but adoption--and it's obvious this must happen either by force legally, or by continuing to campaign against them so no one buys from them--you have to be thick as a brick not to get that message. And if the breeds die which they will that is no skin off his nose--he won't shed a tear he says--since they hold no value whatsoever to him and dogs would all be healthier if they were mutts. ...really...nw bite me...hard..

Candace Ware If that is what he was saying then I can see why you'd be upset. I would be too. Totally. But that's a lot to draw from what I read. I'll have to go back and read it again. I sort oof got the impression he was only saying that to counter people who thought he was overly supporting of breeders. Like he was getting flack from the AR/vegan contingent about not going after breeders. It struck me as a reaction to that, not a declaration that he and No Kill would henceforth advocate for the extinction of breeds.

Candace Ware That whole "mutts are healthier" thing has been debunked, I thought.

Jackie Kensler there is no thinking about it...he's being an ass and he knows it. all he cares about his having another blog under his belt that makes someone out to be the evil antagonist so he can be Mary Poppins. Do you actually think he's that angry when he sits down to write those things? He's have dropped over from a heart attack by now or his stomach would look like swiss cheese. He's calculating and creating his WWF scenarios to keep his market stimulated and they love that stuff. He prolly goes home, has a steak dinner and whelps a litter of puppies...he's a phony...

Jackie Kensler either way he's very calculating and he's using breeders as a pawn. he can kiss it...

Jackie Kensler yes that's exactly what he did. He got accused of being soft on breeders so he said..oh yeah? Watch how soft I am..come here breeders, now stand there while I kick the s**t out of you for everyone to see. They're not going to accuse me of being soft. And just to underscore it...I'll come right out and deliver the ultimate message about how hard I can be...I'll kill your children. Now see how soft I am? See how I can destroy someone and if I ever get my hands on whoever threatened my dog this is what I will do to you. I get totally what he's saying.

Jackie Kensler he can't really touch the people who came after him after DAC (Douglas Anthony Cooper) stirred them up, so he's grabbed the easiest target and used them as example of his prowess. He's gone though his history of breeder-hate reminding them of all of the blows he's delivered and he's bragging about his ultimate manliness in bashing the AKC in his book. How dare you say I'm a breeder-lover..have you forgotten the size of my set? Well if you have, I'll illustrate for you...I'll perform a public flogging these breeders won't forget and neither will you....you'll never accuse me of being soft again. And if you do, I'll have this on record to prove you are wrong...so, here's my stand in case there is any confusion. To hell with the breeds and to hell with all the breeders. My take---he suffered a Narcissistic Injury and this is what narcissists do to recover---they find someone to flog...someone must pay. This ensures they maintain their image and if it's being feared that's as good as being loved, as long as they're on top. He's the only one who's exhaulted. I've been saying for a long time I thought he was a narcissist and he's falling right in line. That statement proves to me beyond any question whatsoever---he has no empathy...what he said was as cold as ice. Anyone who can't see that has not read that blog, doesn't care that he said what he said or isn't paying very close attention, figures he runs his mouth anyway so it doesn't matter, or wants to play over it so his image won't be sullied b/c they don't want to admit maybe supporting him isn't all that smart...AR is AR and he's as AR as they bloody come.

Jackie Kensler Candace Ware -- It might be that personally deep down inside he doesn't have a problem with some breeding...it's hard to tell. What he is in reality and what he is in his blogs don't have to be the same thing--it's like writing pulp fiction. He has to keep a story line going and he knows exactly the elements to throw into it by now b/c that's what keeps him in business. He's a salesman and he wakes up every morning unemployed. He has to stimulate donations, sell books and I imagine get contracts and those blogs are his primary marketing tool. He attracts $ and he grows his following to do his work for him--he clones himself. He's either just a cut-throat who figures all's fair--don't take it personally--or he's the genuine article, really wants to wipe out breeding and just like HSUS will toy with them whenever it's useful knowing he'll cut their hearts out eventually--they are totally objectified and he pulls them in and pushes them away however it suits him. But the thing is, what he says affects legislation and the people he's using as pawns are playing for keeps. He can just keep on truckin' if he loses...but when we lose, we lose it for good. And notice he uses "the term" 13 times in that blog--it's the only way he refers to breeders at all--it's like machine gun fire. Accident.....yeah right. He's working up his audience so by the time he finishes off the beating with the climax they are right there with him--who needs breeds anyway...death to the selfish shallow breeders and death to their stupid, unhealthy, worthless breeds. But the breeders will overlook it b/c well if you don't support him you're stuck w/the stigma of turning your back on suffering. I'd better say I support no kill or what does that say about me? Well...things are not so cut and dried here and maybe the truth is coming out about that, too. It does not in any way put anyone on the side of HSUS and ASPCA as I'm sure he would have it believed--it's not hi-kill or no-kill and you don't have to choose. Specifically for the reason you said; it's possible to achieve the same goal w/o promoting his brand. I recently heard reference to something called "save more"---I like that name a lot. Doesn't that describe it with much more accuracy and ... surprise--it does not contain the obligatory AR emotive language with the built in guilt trip.

Didi Culp I am not in favor of new laws in this climate. Making fair decisions in a polarized lobbying arena is impossible. Euthanasia, by definition, is only possible when an animal is dying. Period. Spending tax dollars for the humane slaughter of companion animals with issues is a problem in these economic times. Suffering or warehousing living creatures is also not a solution. The belief industry has co-opted all these concerns which draws people who don't care a whit about the issues. They just see the money pile. In the end it's good people who need their money and their companion animals who will be separated from both. ARGH.

Lynn Turriff I would like to know exactly who these 'experts' are, and
where they get their information.

We have been blindsided all too often by people who are
accorded 'expert' status, only to discover that they are
strong AR advocates, if not outright extremists.

I do find this a little disturbing:

"The league said it will try to accommodate as many animals
that it can and that creating a "no-kill" community will
require "strong licensing laws, spay/neuter initiatives and
animal control programs" on the local, county and state
levels."

Why not *enforce* the leash laws they have? Is there
another flurry of restrictive ordinances in the pipeline?
The simplest solution to most of the few problems that do
exist is to enforce existing least and abuse laws, not to
impose more. Why will they 'try to accomodate' ..? True
no-kill is open admission.

This doesn't sound like Winograd's no-kill at all, it
sounds like a 'we can prove this won't work' effort.

So .. it kind of seems they are playing both ends against
the middle. Two different AR influenced groups disputing
territory. And .. guess who loses

Jackie Kensler
Friday at 4:13am (October 26, 2012)

Their true colors aren't the only ones showing here. This is the true Nathan and he's cloning himself daily. How can anyone who loves the breeds allign themselves with this? What is he capable of doing if he's capable of even saying it? There has to be a way to support shelter reform without getting behind someone like this.

"I bashed the AKC in Redemption. And I believe that though dogs are not dying because of pet overpopulation, they are still dying. And as long as that is true, I believe people should adopt from a rescue or shelter. I also could not care less about maintaining breeds and never have. As far as I am concerned, if all dogs become all-mutt, that would be fine with me and probably healthier for the dogs. I’m a Heinz 57 man myself."    Nathan Winograd

http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=10853

Jay Kitchener Makes no sense. Not logical. Mixed breeds come from pure breeds. Can't have one without the other. (sigh)

Jackie Kensler he's a lying sob and he's a total b'tard. He's filling those ppl full of garbage and he knows it. He's equating the worst of the worst w/pet shops and telling those ppl those breeders aren't regulated. he's a damned liar

Anke Masters I am pretty fed up with the compartmentalizing. Just because they coined a catchy name for it does not mean that many people have not worked for shelter animals prior to them. Just because some big money showed up and pushed HSUS, does not mean, there weren't lots of people fighting HSUS long before. We have been rescuing long before 'rescue' became the new business model and war cry, we have been pushing shelters long before W.N. showed up and we have been educating folks about HSUS long before HW was created. AARRGG I do not begrudge them their success - how can I - however, N.W. throwing breeders under the bus, DAC throwing HWers under the bus to maintain and justify the 'purity' of their souls or whatever ..... in my mind proves the lack of purity in their hearts. Do it for the cause, the good, quit bragging about it and you don't have to smack down others. Anybody bragging about their good deeds does not hold much credence in my book.

Jackie Kensler this guy is sick

Thomas Kirby In one of his earlier blog posts he mentioned conditions under which the HSUS could redeem itself. Trouble is, sincere or not, if the HSUS can redeem itself under certain conditions, it can pretend that those conditions were met. It can also then evade bent held accountable for its crimes, for which its executives should spend a lot of time in jail for. It can run out the statute of limitations by delaying the reckoning then its victims will still be hurt and they will be unable to be prosecuted.

Jackie Kensler he doesn't care about the breeds....well he is creating a whole lot of other idiots who are not going to care about he breeds either. He is devaluing everything we value and teaching that. And peopel will listne..especially young ppl and they are impressionable. he is dangerous and he should not be supported. That's sick and he even says thehy're not ressonsible for over pop.He just doesn't want them breeding anyway. he wants it that way.

Anke Masters but bottom line is, that we could unite and be a power as well. It's not his fault that our side can't get it together and insists on being snooty. I am over-simplifying of course, but we are free to create a fighting force as well. We have many good groups fighting but it's not N.W.'s fault that we can't get much traction. That's on US!!

Jackie Kensler true but Im' not going to promote his shit. he can bite me

Jackie Kensler everybody needs to see what he said...everybody needs to know the truth. This guy is stark raving mad

Jackie Kensler DAC wrote an article about him...he makes him sound like such a normal person. No veganism, no AR, and no hint that he doesn't give a shit if every breed disappears. Well I think people have a right to know that. Now DAC says Bermam isn't transparent??? That Nathan is up fromt..no kill is honest? Well DAC was not very honest. He hid some very improtant info..namely that this guy is a snap case....he's bats**t crazy and he should not be responsible for the laws and rules of our society i.e. our shelters.

Jackie Kensler he is not to be trusted

Jackie Kensler he shouldn't be anywhere near a shelter

Thomas Kirby "Our side" has trouble getting out of the starting gates because some of us still give away power. I can explain the psychological mechanism in great detail. The people who are giving us trouble do not deserve to "regulate, not ban" and they don't deserve to hear "we're not saying that any idiot should own a tiger."

It's awful hard to start out in a leaky rowboat that some people insist on drilling holes in. They also bash on people who want to patch those holes. Not as much, but this is improving too slowly.

Jackie Kensler you do realize when you push no kill you're simply pimping for him. when a shelter decides to do it they hire him as a consultant. that's what it's all about. well Im not pimping for this ahole anymore. he wants to destroy breeders and he wants to destroy breeds. F him!!! no breeder should be support that ever. period,.

Anke Masters I doubt he would, He's vegan after all LOL

Jackie Kensler any breeder who supports no kill is just plain stupid

Anke Masters no-kill as his movement, sure. Breeders against needless shelter killings, hardly.

Thomas Kirby Not stupid. It can take a little time to peel off this mask.

Jackie Kensler Anke Masters ya know, that's the kind thing that's such a no -brainer it should not have to be said. It's insulting for it not to be implied as far as I'm concerned. Anyone who couldn't ascertain that isn't worth sending a message. What else could it mean?

Anke Masters it might be insulting to you but there are plenty of people who dont get it.

Jackie Kensler there are other ways to support shelter reform and shelter reform doesn't mean kill more. There are shelters who have done it without him. Not every shelter is the hell he makes them out to be; that works for him, just like it works to make breeders out as non-human. non-human. not worth caring about; not of value; not deserving of anything they value. insignificant and if you check this post where it is in another place, apparently not deserving of honesty either. Just another sly marketing dawg...anyone who thinks other wise is in lala land. and I'm glad I said it before this blog came out because it's been bugging me for quite some time--since last December at least.

Jackie Kensler I don't care I don't care. I really really don't care...

Jackie Kensler that's like saying hi, btw I'm human. If it's not someone who can pick it up in conversation or ask, then if they don't get that they aren't going to get anything else. I get it..that's all that matters to me.

Thomas Kirby His methods are the kind that work on smart people.

Jackie Kensler i just lost electricity just like that poof!

Jackie Kensler i love what you said about compartmentalizing, Anke Masters. That was brilliant. Well, this is my page, and I figure if folks on my page can't figure it out...that's another problem. I'm not going to assume anyone's stupidity for them. They're going to have to step up and claim it :) It doesn't need correcting. It's not a question. Correcting it for anybody demeans me as a human....not you specifically, but just anybody. That's the kind of thing I don't want corrected.

Thomas Kirby Getting tired, angry, and frustrated can give you a chance to gain a stronger perspective on this and stronger resolve.

Jackie Kensler what do you mean Thomas Kirby about his methods?

Thomas Kirby Jackie, I think that you are working through a few things and coming to a greater understanding. The things that you are understanding better will piss you off. I don't know how many times I've had to say that I simply can't believe this BS and that this BS rules. The reason that it rules is because the BSers have a motive to lord it over other people. You and I have our plates full trying to live our lives and we don't have a motive to get over on others, other than self-defense. Maybe that's where some of the BSers come from too, they simply broke after trying to be decent people and getting worked over.

Jackie Kensler ok Thomas Kirby -- make sure you read the blog and what I pulled out up in the status, and then read this.

Here's what I'm seeing. I've thought for a long time NW was probably a narcissist. if you've read any of Malignant Self-Love, it talks about th...See More

Thomas Kirby The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, no more and no less.

I haven't put that one together like you have. I did figure that he was setting it up so that we would associate his program with the beating that the HSUS and the ASPCA need. If he becomes enough of an icon he can sway people to thinking that the HSUS and ASPCA need to be corrected, rather than totally obliterated and all executives jailed.

Winograd has worse than his ego to protect. He has a program to protect.

Thomas Kirby You might think of it as a controlled descent. The ASPCA has done it before. They might still be aware that they get stripped of their power when they get too big for their britches eventually, and right now it looks like they bid fair not only to kill the golden goose, but to nuke the entire farm and salt it with cobalt-60. This is the result of a generation of narcissist ASPD (anti-social personality disorder) types that don't even have the sense to let what they harvest grow back, and to actually clear-cut and fail to re-plant. Their own fathers are going to want them dead. If they are "redeemed" ten years from now they will be taking "credit" for restoring our freedoms and the environment.



Note - There you have it.  Drats has been peeling away that mask for years.  People are finally starting to open their eyes and listen.

Is No Kill’s Pro Breeder Position “Pro Kill”

Underhook Kennels 

We've all heard the ad nausea talk coming from the no kill leaders blaming everyone but the breeders for shelter killing.  In my experience lowering intake is a much more prudent and less costly way for communities to end the killing but I have been told my thinking is “old school” or more commonly referred to as PRO KILL.

In an interesting exchange on No Kill Nation’s Facebook page there was this exchange:  (I have left the misspellings and grammar as is – it’s the message I’m sharing)

Kyle x Xxxxxxx “I believe we should have a spay or neuter law. If you are not an approved breeder. You have to fix all your pets. And if you can not afford it they gov will do it for you. No more un wanted babies.”

UnderHook Kennel Kyle, I understand whole heartedly where your coming from, but I dont want to be made to pay for doggy abortions . Its enough that my tax dollors will have to pay for human abortions now taking more for Fido does not help us in the short or long wrong. In my humble opinion If one cant afford a pet an all its expenses one should not own animals, same goes for humans having children. Now in regards to the spay and neuter law and beeing a approved breeder, I believe people have to make that decision for their animals and not the Gov. an beeing a breeder is no easy task. Most people wont have the money , Knowledge or patience to stay the course and become reputable. That in itself will naturally end their cycle. Now if Gov. steps in and says you need licenses degrees, internship .. people wont breed and the few that do wont have enough of a gene pool to breed healthy dogs and thats just the begining of the argument on becoming a licensed breeder.

No Kill Nation Hundreds of communities have mandatory spay/neuter laws. They do not work. They have never created a single No Kill community. In fact, many times they lead to increased impoundments and increased killing. We advocate for what works. Nobody should support a law that does not work and leads to more killing.

So, given an opportunity to educate it’s followers No Kill Nation’s leadership not only fails dismally in correcting this breeders assertion that breeding doesn’t add to pet overpopulation issues but offers misleading or down right inaccurate information on spay neuter laws.  There are NOT hundreds of communities that have enacted a mandatory spay neuter law.

The classic example of communities that have passed “mandatory” spay neuter laws are typically Los Angeles, that failed in its goal when the politicians pulled the funding on targeted spay neuter access.  Without access to affordable spay neuter many pet owners who would have complied with the law and  spay neutered their pets simply couldn’t.

Las Vegas is cited as seeing an increase in shelter intake and kill numbers when it passed a spay neuter law in 2007.  Yet, while MSN was blamed for the increase in pets being surrendered and less pets being adopted the critics of MSN completely ignore the fact that Las Vegas also went through a major housing slump where many of its citizens simply lost their jobs and homes.

Memphis has been cited as a failure as well even though the Memphis law only requires pet owners who have a dog picked up for violating a nuisance law to have that pet altered prior to reclaim.  A similar law is also on the books in Austin Texas.

So, who is this expert on the government’s role in passing responsible spay neuter laws and laws that address unlicensed breeders?  Who is the expert who also spews the same tired rhetoric coming from the No Kill leadership blaming the animal protection community for shelter killing?  Underhook Kennels is a pit bull breeder that Drats wrote about earlier.  Of course that blog was deleted as being defamatory towards No Kill Nation as well.

Shelters across the country kill close to one million pit bulls every year.  Yet, the leadership at No Kill Nation thinks a breeder is justified in breeding more?

Walk into any public shelter and you will find pit bulls under the age of two that have been dumped when families who bought them as puppies realize how unpredictable their temperament really is.  This is the result of irresponsible breeders who train a pit for “sport”.

While Underhook Kennels has pulled down their web site a google search pulls up some disturbing information about their breeding habits.

Puppies up for Adoption.
Henzo an I after his first weight pull venue. Guys Henzo is looking for a new home (Free). He is a 11 month old working pup thats energetic and friendly. He has verbal, leash and weight pull training. To give Henzo a forever home please message me here or call me at 323-7073153. Experienced homes are a plus, thank you

Giving away for free a nearly one year old energetic pit bull is simply irresponsible.

Watch this video of pit bulls raised by Underhook Kennels.- note the phone number for the now defunct Underhook Kennels is the same for a breeder website called classicpitbulls.com

I am not suggesting that Underhook Kennels is doing anything illegal but am suggesting all the warning signs are there.  Yet, No Kill Nation uses his opinions on spay/neuter and his position spewing nonsense about HSUS as if it is credible.  It simply isn’t but then again haven’t we heard that song and dance about inept leadership of a no kill movement hell bent on destroying the animal protection community?

Drats is suggesting that the nuts of no kill exercise poor judgment thus are guilty of killing the hundreds of thousands of pit bulls that wouldn’t die in our shelters if WE simply insisted on laws that prevent irresponsible breeders from bringing them into this world in the first place.  That is PRO KILL.

Notes – To learn more about the pit bull breeding community visit sites like

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/

Jokerman

 

Standing on the water, casting your bread
While the eyes of the idol with the iron head are glowing
Distant ships sailing into the mist
You were born with a snake in both of your fists while a hurricane was blowing
Freedom just around the corner for you
But with truth so far off, what good will it do.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

So swiftly the sun sets in the sky
You rise up and say goodbye to no one
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread
Both of their futures, so full of dread, you don't show one
Shedding off one more layer of skin
Keeping one step ahead of the persecutor within.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

You're a man of the mountains, you can walk on the clouds
Manipulator of crowds, you're a dream twister
You're going to Sodom and Gomorrah
But what do you care ? Ain't nobody there would want marry your sister
Friend to the martyr, a friend to the woman of shame
You look into the fiery furnace, see the rich man without any name.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

Well, the Book of Leviticus and Deuteronomy
The law of the jungle and the sea are your only teachers
In the smoke of the twilight on a milk-white steed
Michelangelo indeed could've carved out your features
Resting in the fields, far from the turbulent space
Half asleep near the stars with a small dog licking your face.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

Well, the rifleman's stalking the sick and the lame
Preacherman seeks the same, who'll get there first is uncertain
Nightsticks and water cannons, tear gas, padlocks
Molotov cocktails and rocks behind every curtain
False-hearted judges dying in the webs that they spin
Only a matter of time 'til the night comes stepping in.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

It's a shadowy world, skies are slippery gray
A woman just gave birth to a prince today and dressed him in scarlet
He'll put the priest in his pocket, put the blade to the heat
Take the motherless children off the street
And place them at the feet of a harlot
Oh, Jokerman, you know what he wants
Oh, Jokerman, you don't show any response.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

　

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XSvsFgvWr0